Can you share with us the challenges you face as a
a. woman in the music industry?

Navigating through the changing stages of life as a woman in the music industry, from being single, to married, to now a mother, continues to challenge me to understand what my role and purpose is through the music and being a performing artiste. I’ve gone from an arranger of Psalms to a rock chick, to a demure singer-songwriter, and back full circle with my newest release. I’m always moving within that tension of giving people a consistent perception of my “product” or “brand,” and just wanting to be free to be who I am, express it how I want, in whatever stage of life I’m in.

Temptations throughout the development of my artiste career is another big one which I think a lot of young women face in the industry. The artiste’s journey involves meeting so many like-minded and often, very cool and attractive people. I was often confronted with situations which if not kept in check and with open accountability with my husband and trusted friends, could take me into very dangerous territory. Also, often traveling apart from my husband for tours of two to six weeks at a time meant that there was the challenge of establishing trust and honesty very early in our relationship, as well as setting very definitive boundaries to protect the greatest relationship in my life.

b. Christian artiste

For me, there is a difference between being a Christian artiste and a Christian in the arts. Each has its challenges, as each has a perception attached to it. A “Christian artiste” depicts a specific genre to some, alienation through religiosity for others, and a limited “market” for industry prospects. A “Christian in the arts,” and to be publicly known as one, brings an entirely different set of challenges. To me, this is the real identity I take on, as I am first a Christian, and being an artiste is, well, just one part of what I do. My music is malleable, and not defined by a genre or definitive content within my songs. As evident through the albums I’ve released, I write as the inspiration comes, whether it be about my faith, about life, about love, about a cause, or about random nothings. The challenge I face is similar to any Christian; it is the challenge of Matthew 5 – being salt and light to the world. Living this calling in the music industry with godly principles and the Holy Spirit as my ultimate guide and “manager(!)” often means I pass up certain opportunities, and pursue others that don’t necessarily make financial or branding sense. It also means I’ve chosen to retain a level of control over the direction of my career, possibly at the expense of a bigger name or achievement. I am daily challenged by what it means to die to self, when as an artiste, the recognized pursuit and definition of “success” is the promotion of self.

As an artiste, how can you be a role model or positive influence to young girls today, especially with so many dominant females like Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, and Miley Cyrus in the music and entertainment scene today?

I think what people admire and look up to is courage and conviction. I know I do. We are wowed when people make a stand, whether it is for attention, for themselves or for others. I feel that the greatest and most long-lasting impact is made when we make a stand and have conviction on issues that positively affect others. Music in that sense, can be hugely powerful, and as a performing and recording artiste, I feel that this is a very natural way to communicate a message. The music I write helps to provide a blueprint not only to convey a message to others, but also to myself! When I write about making a positive difference in this world (”Do So Much” in the album Whoever You Are), or desperately desiring for my friends to know Jesus as their Savior (”Eternity” in the album Innermost Being), or how much I need to just be still (”Be Still” in the album Selah), I am gently reminding myself of how I need to live! Being accountable to what I say or sing from the platform is very important for me, as I’d only be comfortable being a role model in what I’m genuinely living out!

We got wind that you have a newborn baby! Congratulations! What has changed since you gave birth? How do you manage being a mum and an artiste at the same time?

Well, having little Zac has definitely stretched me in a whole new way, and not just physically! I feel God’s grace every day, realizing that he is probably what every new mother dreams of – an incredibly “easy” baby. As well as continuing to write, perform and tour with the music both throughout pregnancy as well as from three months after he was born, I found myself taking on a business partner and scaling up Monsoon Productions throughout Asia Pacific in the midst of Zac’s arrival, rather than putting everything on hold (which is what I was preparing to do). It’s like God, through Zac, is teaching me every day to entrust my capacity to Him, not my own judgment or what the world thinks. Every day I am quietly amazed and so thankful to God for a baby who eats, sleeps, plays, and grows so well, seeming to take everything in his stride. Adrian and I both work from home, so it makes what I do possible as we share the primary care-giving for Zac. I’m so thankful that Zac is as excited to be around dad as he is around me. We bargain with each other with nappy changes, tag team meetings to look after Zac, and through it all, Zac gets to meet so many interesting people and places. Just yesterday he sat in the studio with me recording an artiste’s vocals for a new song. Somehow he was miraculously silent whenever we’d be recording, and then he’d let out a good gurgle in between sessions! Things like that just wow me! So to be honest, my life hasn’t changed all that much! Seizing the day is one of my mottos, and I guess I see this season’s unexpected blessings as a green light from God to be doing what I’m doing as an artiste and director as an extension to my newly appointed role of motherhood.

Do you feel that there is a difference in the way men and women songwriters compose their songs?

Hmm. To be honest, not specifically. I think everyone has their own way of creating songs, and it is more to do with personality and life experience, than gender! It would be interesting to conduct a study though. Perhaps it might show that women write better lyrics and men write better instrumentals? LOL!

Lastly, do you have any words of encouragement for aspiring female singers and songwriters?

I would say, be diligent, be courageous, know what you stand for, and know your identity before you step out and open yourself out for others to try to determine it for you. Any goal or aspiration that is worth fighting for involves work and fighting for it! Be savvy about the season you are in, seek the counsel of God and trusted friends around you, and… what did I say before? Seize the day!

Deb’s new album will be available in most Christian bookstores from the end of July.

You can also check out her website at: www.debfung.com

What inspired you to start Friends of the Disabled Society?

Back in the 70s, while I was working in the Air Force, a colleague told me about one of her sisters who had a high fever, collapsed, and went into a coma. Although she eventually came out of the coma, she was stricken with some physical disabilities. Her sister was interested in the Bible. Knowing that I’m a Christian, my colleague requested me to visit her sister to study the Bible with her. Before that, I had never come into close contact with any disabled person before. I visited and studied God’s Word with this disabled lady over a period of time and eventually she became a Christian. I brought her to and from church, and also on outings. Deep down, I really enjoyed helping her. I felt that I could be a friend to those who are disabled.

When my 12 year contract with the Air Force was completed, I decided to embark on something I liked: working with disabled people. I was not sure if I could do the job or if I would like it as much as I thought. So with much apprehension, I took on a job in a “sheltered workshop” organization. It was a place where disabled people who are unable to find work in the job market can come and do piece-rated jobs for some companies. For example, simple packaging work. My job was to help and ensure that they got their job done on time.

Initially, I was not used to the new environment in the workshop. It was so overwhelming that I began questioning God as to why He had led me to such a place. Even so, I thought to give myself three months to see if I would adjust to this work. At the end of three months, I had built a bond with these people and I knew I did not want to leave. By the time I finally left, I had worked 16 years with the organization.

In 2000, Friends of the Disabled Society (FDS) was officially registered. Altogether, we had five ladies in the committee including myself, and we were all volunteers. We organized parties, get-togethers and other social activities for our disabled friends as well as made home visits to those who were severely disabled. A few years later, there was too much to do that could not be accomplished without a full time staff. The committee decided that I was most ideal to come in full time because of my passion for this work. After much prayer and consideration, I commenced my full time work with the society in 2004.

What does your work with FDS encompass?

Initially, we mainly organized social activities as mentioned. In my years with the “sheltered workshop” organization, I realized that what many of the disabled need is friendship. My observation is that the disabled did not require people to serve them during a party but they want friendship. The message to many able-bodied people is that you don’t just have to come, serve, and leave. But sit with them and get to know them. That is how the social interaction program was started. The main objective of any activity we organize is to allow rapport to be created between volunteers and our disabled friends.

As we were doing this, we realized that there was another need, which is visiting them at home, especially the home bound who are severely disabled. So we started to do home visitation, to get to know them and their families and render help whenever possible.

Presently, our main effort is the Skills Enrichment Program. I started to teach them to make gift products like photo frames, beaded greeting cards, key chains, bookmarks, earrings, and necklaces. Those who were interested came down to the center and slowly began to pick up different skills. The main problem I faced once they started to make the products was: “Where do I sell them?” That’s when I came to know about Social Innovation Park’s PATH (Pop and Art Talent Hub) Art Market. They gave us and many other talented people and organizations an avenue to sell handmade products at VivoCity shopping mall. This came as a great opportunity for the society to sell the handmade products of our disabled friends. Besides buying the materials (to make the products), developing new products, teaching them to our disabled Friends, and setting up the sales booth, my job also involves doing reports, administration work, fund raising projects, accompanying volunteers for the Home Visitation Program, and organizing and carrying out social interaction activities.

In recent years, do you think that Singapore’s infrastructure has improved to accommodate the physically disabled? Is it sufficient?

Definitely. Just to give you a small story: my sister’s first husband was a physically challenged person. He told me that back in the earlier years, it was nearly impossible for the disabled to find jobs, especially in big buildings – the entrance to such places will have staircases and the disabled in wheelchairs will not be able to go beyond a certain point, as there will be no ramps. Today there is definitely a lift everywhere, and ramps that provide easy accessibility for wheelchair bound people. Many buses are made accessible to wheelchair bound people too.

However, I think there can be more improvements. One of the things that has been troubling me lately is that there is no public transport subsidy for the disabled who are earning very minimal or no income. Hopefully, one day, this can be considered by our transport authorities and the disabled people will be able to receive transport subsidy. Other than that, I think the infrastructure in Singapore is much, much better than it used to be. Not only that, the thing that I like is that most schools have community involvement projects. It’s a very good idea because it exposes the students to disabled people, which will help to bring up a society that will be more conscious of them.

In your opinion, what are the felt needs of disabled people?

I wish I had a magic wand to wave around and every one of them can get a job and thereby earn an income for themselves, but it doesn’t happen that way. When I started doing this, I knew that deep in my heart, I wanted very much for them to learn some skills that will help them earn an income. So if you ask me what is their felt need – it is to get a job and support their own living. They are all in their own way struggling to earn a bit of money for themselves.

How do you keep motivated?

The disabled friends have been a great encouragement to me. Even in their condition, their positive outlook towards life and their attitude of not easily giving up in whatever they do is a great inspiration to me.

Sometimes during difficult times, I’ll start questioning God, and He in His own way will tell me that all things will be done in His own time. And that’s what I’m learning. The human being that I am, I see all the setbacks rather than the good things. There was a time when we’ve come to the stage of having nothing in our bank. Those are the months that I didn’t get my salary – which is okay because this is something that I decided I wanted to do. Yet, miraculously, things start to happen, for example, we received unexpected donations. You see when I started this work, there was a lot of prayer and seeking God, telling Him how strongly I needed His direction in my life. I’m at the stage where I know that this is the calling that I have. So I know it’s not my work, but more of God helping our special people.

If people are interested to help out, what type of volunteers are you looking for?

The sales that we’re doing in VivoCity is a permanent one, which is on the first and last weekend. We don’t have transport. More help in transportation would be great. And we need help in training our disabled friends. Recently, a group of SMU students came and taught our disabled friends how to create a blog and to open an online shop. It will be wonderful if more people with specialized skills could come forward to help to teach and share their skills with our disabled friends.

Ms S Roogmanny is a member of Moulmein Church of Christ and has been a Christian for the past thirty years. During her free time (which is very rare nowadays), she loves to try her hand at baking and experimenting with different recipes. She also enjoys taking care of her small garden, which she started outside her house.

As a mediator, she witnessed the anguish of those overwhelmed by the challenges of marriage. Often, she walked with them and referred them to the counseling professionals for appropriate help. As a solemnizer, she has spent many weekends over the past six years officiating marriages and witnessing couples begin their married life on a memorable and positive note.

Eagles VantagePoint seized the opportunity and invited Mrs Chia to share her thoughts and heartbeat with us.

We understand that it is not common practice for a wedding solemnizer to meet up and chat with couples prior to the wedding ceremony, but you make it a point to. Can you share with us your motivation for doing so?

Licensed solemnizers receive cold calls from couples to conduct their wedding ceremonies. I find it more meaningful to meet and put names to the faces of the couple to be wedded and hold them “captives” to the things I like to share with them on marriage.

Besides going through the logistics, I see it as due diligence on my part to ensure that the couple understands the commitment they are entering into. Matrimony is a gift to protect life together – a duty to live responsibly, reverently, not carelessly, lightly or selfishly – long and short. Wedding is not marriage.

I think it is also because I see the unpleasant side of marital relationships in mediation work. These often resulted from marriages built on weak foundations and poorly managed conflicts during the time the couple lived together, which could have been addressed early through proper grounding and appropriate early interventions. I’m a firm believer in good marriage preparation programs.

What do you do in your encounter with the couples you are to solemnize?

My chats with the couples are brief. It is not my prerogative to give a long discourse on marriage – that’s very “K-Kiang!” (colloquial for being a smart alec). It is not to declare them as being suited or not suited for each other or on their readiness for marriage. It is more of a reality check with them on the subject.

My favorite lines to “frighten” them are: “Marriage is HARD!” and “Marriage needs WORK to keep the glow!” Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-marriage – The institution of marriage is beautiful. There’s no mistake – Adam was for Eve, and Eve for Adam. God is the Matchmaker.

I emphasize attending marriage preparation class, of which the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports heavily subsidizes, and also the need to seek professionals for assistance in their inevitable marital struggles. It’s sad that most of the time, married people seek help too late. I quote Aristotle, who said that the heart when stabbed, bleeds profusely and is fatal more often than not.

Based on your experiences, what do you think are some topics to cover for a marriage preparation class?

Different churches, religious organizations, family service centers or counseling centers run such programs. The sessions are conducted either in a small group, with individual couples, or a combination of both. I personally prefer one-on-one sessions as more work can be done on a deeper level for the individuals represented.

Personality profiling is also very helpful. We can use the results reflected as a platform to talk about their colorful differences. Values will unfold in the process – belief systems, faith, expectations, communication styles, etc. These subject matters provide the couple the opportunity to hold facilitated conversation with a professional. This is excellent in helping to uncover the couple’s “difficult” conversations which could have been subconsciously swept under the carpet to be surfaced for open discussion. For example, in one session, the subject on pornography was raised by the bride to be who was not comfortable with it and took the opportunity to bring this issue to light. It turned out to be a good session because the guy was also very open to talking about it, which was unexpected for her. And that is excellent because they highlighted this issue instead of avoiding it. And it helps that there is a professional – a facilitator to help them sort out some things. I also encourage my couples to bring up similar, sensitive issues in whichever one-on-one marriage preparation sessions they attend.

Relevant issues like finances and in-laws (a topic especially important for couples who are staying with their in-laws) should also be discussed. Sex is also an important topic. Very often, sex is used for the gratification of one party or as a weapon in conflict. To quote my beloved husband’s illustration, he laments that the marriage vow is like a “water contract” whereby the spouse can only quench his/her thirst from the married partner and no one else. Sex is like God’s gift of water – it is a biological need that should never be denied, or worse, to be used as a weapon of attack, especially in marital disputes.

What are some common concerns of engaged couples in this modern day? Do you think there is a difference in their values compared to couples twenty to thirty years ago?

I observe that engaged couples seem more concerned about dollars and cents. It seems to revolve around money and career – not surprising in our pragmatic society. Couples think that they have found a soulmate in each other, but in reality, what they have found is a business partner. Interestingly also, their concern is not so much about having children. This issue does not seem to surface much. If the couple is older, they may think about how to start a family. But for younger couples, this is an issue I do not encounter often.

Regarding difference in values, it is sad to talk about this topic. I feel that my husband and I did not have many expectations then compared to the intelligent couples now. We naively got married, got our kids, and raised them. We did it all by grace! I am proud to tell you now that we are married for a good 38 years with no change of partner!

Can you suggest some important factors that are needed to sustain a relationship for the long haul?

The mutual faith – a religion – is an important element in a couple’s relationship – it has definitely been the case in my marriage. They say a family that prays together stays together. There is a lot of truth in that exercise. We need to recognize that marital difficulties are a sure encounter; marital dissatisfaction is inevitable. When a couple fights at a human level, it can never be at a level where it is fairer than before a God who knows all and is above all! My favorite line to my beloved: “I’m not afraid of you; I’m afraid of God!”

Exchange of vocabulary – Ephesians 4:26 is a sound counsel to embrace at all times. Watch our vocabulary with our partner. As I mentioned earlier, Aristotle said that a hit on the head may give rise to a concussion but a stab in the heart is fatal. That is so true! As couples go about their daily lives, they “stab” each other with unkind words and deeds, leaving one another to bleed, eventually killing the marriage but keeping the form! Words can heal, but words can also kill!

Expectation – Expecting too much from a partner/a marriage is another roadblock to achieving a satisfying, sustained relationship. Read Helping Couples Change where Richard Stuart writes, “The couple who would strive for perfection in their marriage has taken their first steps toward divorce and despair.”

When do you think is the right time to get married?

It’s not so simple to put a chronological order to a relationship development, especially so with regards to matters of the heart. Human relationships are intricate and complicated.

To answer the question, I guess the right time is when the couple is completely confident and sure, ready and prepared for the commitment they are entering. They’re the best people to answer the pertinent question. The time is indeed determined by the depth of the relationship, and that is not age related for sure!

I have had couples cancel weddings a week before the set date, after all the arrangements have been made, wedding invitations sent out, and the guest list confirmed! There was one who called off the pompous wedding by the beach on the eve of the ceremony, forfeiting the handsome down payment made to the restaurant for the occasion!

Educated couples these days fear getting into a situation where they find great difficulty getting out. This fear is understandable when divorce is so prevalent that almost one in three marriages in Singapore end in divorce. Divorce is happening closer to home – to our senior parents (!), siblings, and close friends. As the success of a good marriage is getting remote, sadly, people are becoming less confident about the success of sustaining their relationship.

Sometimes couples find that when they are so close to marriage, it is very hard to fight temptation – sexual temptations especially. Can you comment on that?

In this age of globalization, it is very easy for individuals to encounter sexual temptation. Christians and non-Christians alike are subjected to this enticement. Realistically, many Christians have already engaged in sexual activities before marriage. The couple has to be very deliberate in their relationship and keep it very chaste. For believers, we know we are accountable to God. It is because we love God and want to be obedient that we are often able to overcome the temptations. Some couples have mentor-couples who walk alongside with them even after marriage. I’ll like to see more stepping forward for such roles!

Art therapy is using different forms of art to help in the process of therapeutic intervention. Art forms like drawing, music, and dance can be used to express an individual’s feelings or thinking. Art therapy enables us to tap into our feelings, sub-consciousness or imagination. These facades of our life are very important in determining how we behave, see ourselves, and the world around us.

2. Specifically, can you tell us what is dance therapy and who can benefit from it?

Dance therapy is nowadays referred to as body movement therapy. Dance therapy is often misunderstood. For example, people sometimes think it is a social dance.

We use body movement to achieve healing. Body movement, which involves rhythm and music, is self-expression. How you want to move your body and create rhythm is up to you. Through moving your body, in expressing form and space, it allows you to explore. For example, some people through body movement come to realize that they may move too fast or too slow. Body movement then allows them to develop the other extreme. For example, if one is always slow, one can experience short, quick movements. In exploring various body movements (even ones we are not accustomed to), we become a more complete individual. We also become more flexible. Body movement can also be another source of motivation – inspiring and giving us a comforting feeling.

In body movement, a lot of activities are involved, including interpersonal relationships. Different kinds of body movements can lead us to explore different ways of relating to people. Body movement allows us to explore non-verbal communication. In dance therapy workshops, we not only move our bodies but we also learn to interact socially. There are different ways of using our bodies to send out a message or make a statement. Body movement helps us to better understand ourselves and this in turn gives us more self-control, self-confidence, and self-awareness.

Through body movement therapy, certain disorders can also be diagnosed or it can be used to assess an individual for different types of personal problems – including psychological, emotional, and psychosomatic issues. For example, a person’s way of dancing may indicate a specific problem. At other times, people with disorders like Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder  (ADHD) or autism can develop both their social and cognitive abilities through body movement.

3. What made you decide to explore body movement therapy as a way of helping your clients?

I explore whatever forms that have proven to be effective in helping people. I believe that the body, mind, and soul are interactive. They work together for an individual to achieve his or her highest potential. So if we have a body, we need to use it. We don’t just use our minds. Body movement also allows us to express our feelings immediately. It is an effective channel.

In addition, I met a Taiwanese dance therapist who became my best friend. As a friend, her lifestyle was an inspiration for me.

In church, besides singing we can also dance or jump. That expresses one’s total existence in doing something. In the Bible there is a passage about David dancing in front of the ark of God (2 Sam 6:14-15).

Body movement is the whole person immersed in that moment. It is a very precious time for an individual to reach their full potential, to be whole as a person. The body is very amazing, and we need to learn about it and use it. That’s why I introduce it to my clients.

Also, I realize in modern life we tend to constrain our body movements. For example, if we live in the mountains or the countryside, we can run wild, climb trees or go down to the river. We feel free. But in urban life, we are restricted by a lot of rules and regulations. So a certain part of us – the freedom, the creativity – fades away if we don’t allow for an opportunity to insert body movement into our daily life. For modern people living the urban life, we need this.

4. Do you think there is enough emphasis placed on the importance of using art as a form of therapy in Singapore?

Currently there is not enough emphasis on creative therapy yet. It is still an emerging therapy. However, more and more are aware that we need to express ourselves, instead of just working like machines. We are individuals; we want our own voice. We need different ways of expressing ourselves. Overall, Singaporeans need more of this so that we are free and alive, and life itself is not reduced to robotic movements. Often we work, we perform, and we function quite well. But we are not just functioning machines. We are human beings. We have spirit, we have feelings, and we have this search for eternity.

5. What available resources are there in Singapore for people who are interested in dance and other forms of art therapy? Where do we stand internationally?

For dance therapy, we do not have any professional associations yet – unlike countries such as America and Taiwan. In such associations, the professionals are trained and they provide counseling for people. In Singapore, we do not have such an association because we do not yet have enough trained dance therapists. Currently, such a subject is not offered in schools. Only certain organizations have engaged professionals from overseas for training. I myself have engaged expertise from Taiwan. In other cultures such therapies are more accepted. In Singapore, it is still an emerging profession.

For children and adolescents, we have done more. For adolescents, they prefer certain forms of body movements like street dance. For children, some private organizations incorporate body movements to help stimulate and thus assist in developing their brains.

In countries like America, Australia, and even Taiwan – more adults realize the importance of their spiritual and psychological development and they will seek out these types of therapy.

For drama therapy, people act out unscripted performances. Many people find it powerful and effective. They act out their inner world under the guidance of the director – normally the therapist. Drama therapy was introduced into Singapore ten years ago and since then more organizations have become involved in this form of therapy.

The Centre for Creative Development is available for people interested in these (and other) types of therapies, to help them reach their potential. For art therapy (painting, drawing), LASALLE College of the Arts in Singapore offers a Masters in Art Therapy. It is the first formal institute to focus on creative arts therapy. Various family service centers and other social service agencies are also starting to explore elements of creative therapy. Besides this, there are also small groups of people who focus on these types of therapies.

Therapists who engage in various forms of art therapy say that they find the best reward is the client’s feedback – that they have received help which may not have been possible in traditional forms of therapy.

Dr Chou Mei Ling is the Director of Centre for Creative Development (Singapore) (www.ccd.sg) and a Senior Consultant Psychologist for EMCC (www.emcc.org.sg). For over twenty years, Dr Chou has been involved in individual counseling, coaching, family therapy, and couple therapy. She has been instrumental in introducing psychodrama as a therapy tool in Singapore. A registered psychologist with the Singapore Register of Psychologists, her clientele also extends to Malaysia, Taiwan, and China.

For the purpose of this article, “art therapy” refers to any type of creative arts therapy unless otherwise stated.

Share with us how you came to know God.

Ngiam Tong Dow (N): My father died when I was 10. My mother was left to raise five of us children single-handedly. I was the eldest and I had just entered primary one of the English medium school. By the grace of God, our neighbors were an Indian Christian family, the Pauls. The eldest daughter taught me to read, speak, and write English. Mrs Paul persuaded me to stay in school and sit for the university entrance exam. If they had not been my neighbors, my life would have been totally different. They gave me an invaluable start in life.

Thirty years passed before I accepted Christ. I was torn between love for my dead parents whose memory I cherished, and love for the Lord. As the eldest son of a traditional Chinese family, it was my duty to attend to the family altar. At dawn each day, I would light up three joss sticks and pray to my parents. My wife, Janet, born in a Christian family bore patiently the burden of this ritual of her husband. She knew that one day the Lord would speak to me. That day was Maundy Thursday, 1984, in the candlelight of the night service, I saw my son’s face glowing with faith. The thought flashed across my mind: Believe and you shall see. All at once the scales fell from my mind’s eyes. I could see the hand of the Lord at each stage of my life.

Stephen Riady (R): My whole family converted to Christianity between the 1980s and 1990s. I was the last one to convert in 1992. Since my graduation from university, my life had been quite smooth. My family members kept persuading me to convert. It was very difficult for me. Those days I lived in Hong Kong while my parents lived in Jakarta. They’d come to visit me monthly. My mother repeatedly asked me to go to church or to meet with some Christian friends or pastors. I obeyed but remained unconvinced. I thought that my mother was still a bit superstitious. Every time she heard that I made good money by selling buildings, she did not thank or praise me. Instead, she would say that “it is not you but God giving to you.” That was hard for me to accept for many years. My father wanted me to become a Christian so that I could balance the money and the influence that I have.

After I accepted Christ, I gradually experienced change. I’ve been a Christian for 16 years and I can testify that I lead a more balanced life between two laws. One is business law and the other is spiritual law. The business law means profit center – making money, which is for selfish reasons. My faith, which is in the spiritual law, is Christ centered where you find the purpose of life is to know God and to grow in Christ and to depend and trust Him. This is a good balance which I gradually learned.

What are your thoughts on the current global financial crisis?

N: The present financial crisis is man-made. As an economist, I’ll describe it this way: this whole thing began because there was too much liquidity and the bankers then became careless and loaned out a lot of money. They found a way of passing the risk to the people. Since it is a man-made problem, man has to unravel it. Now all the government has to do is to guarantee bank deposits and allow the economic system to make its way out of the recession. So I’m quite unsure about all these bailouts of banks. The real economy may slow down for a while. And as economists, we all know that when interest rates fall, and wages fall, the rate of return on capital would be higher. So entrepreneurs will go back and invest and re-appropriate. And the whole cycle will start over again.

If you read the Keynesian theory of employment, it is very simple. Keynes told the governments of his day, “Don’t be ashamed to run a little budget to facilitate.” So by putting in a little liquidity, the idling economic machinery could be re-started.

R: I think as Christians, we should know what the purpose of life is. The Bible tells us that the purpose of life is to know Christ and to grow in Him. So our purpose here is not just to make money. We want to glorify Him. And the way to do this is through our daily life, our experiences in family, business, and so on. Life is about transformation and we have to change. And people fear change. Nowadays, we talk about the global financial crisis. But we also have other uncertainties in life too. There is a lot of fear. I think God allowed this so that we can be transformed through all these crisis experiences.

It is good as Christians when we see all these crises and difficulties that we learn to adapt to change. My father taught me this Chinese saying that “whatever you take up, you must also be prepared to let go.” In the book of Philippians, Paul says he has learned a secret – he knows how to abound and to abase.

In the current situation, what are the factors that create frenzy, panic, and fear?

N: To quote Alan Greenspan, it is the “market’s irrational exuberance.” It is irrational fear. However, I have faith in the laws of economics. The wheels of the economic laws might grind slowly but they grind inexorably. So you must let the whole thing work itself out. If you panic and sell your shares, you are already realizing a loss but the real economy still exists. The hotels, airports, and hospitals will still operate and farmers will still farm. So what has changed is monetary value. The real economy will start all over again. But what really surprised me this time as an economist is that banks are refusing to lend to each other. That is very irrational. If the banks do not trust each other, how can we trust the banks? I think nevertheless that the real economy, after the fever has been purged, will start humming again. That is my conviction as an economist.

R: What people fear most is losing money. I had that fear of becoming poor in the 1998 Asian financial crisis. At that time, we had a currency collapse and many banks collapsed on top of stock markets. We owned a bank in Indonesia at that time, and every week we heard of other banks collapsing. We were wondering when ours would collapse as people totally had no trust in the banking system. However, if we had faith in our bank, we should then fully support it. That was when we withdrew all our cash from other banks to be put into our bank. My father said we should go this way. To him, trust is more important. That was a very big struggle. What if after we had put all our money in our bank, it would still collapse and all our businesses would be ruined? That was my experience and my biggest fear at that time. What would happen if we became poor and so on? My fear at that time was more severe than what we are experiencing now. But in a way I have gained experience. Some Christians say that these crises are created by God and others say by the enemy. I realize we cannot blame God or the enemy. We have to blame ourselves. It is the fallen human nature – without God, we will make wrong decisions. There is too much greed and over confidence. That’s why so many people make wrong decisions and create so many kinds of crises. We must learn to be responsible.

Where does faith come in during this financial crisis?

N: Let me begin by going back to 1961, when Singapore just had self-government and we had to be responsible for ourselves. During that time, the unemployment rate was over 10%. The government decided to do something about it. We chose a straight and narrow road of creating employment – anything that could give us a job. If you choose the straight and narrow path to solve the problem, more than likely God will be with you. But if you choose the easy option – the low road, I think it will lead you to a lot of grief. That is my Christian conviction.

R: Well, when the crisis happened, it forced me to pray more. I turned to God and became closer to Him. And faith really comes by reading the Word and of course praying. So I think it is good that we have more time for God. In the end, we learn from experience. On top of experience, we spend more time with God and draw closer to Him.

There is a difference between Christians and non-Christians. We all suffer and face the same financial crisis. The difference is that non-Christians suffer both outwardly and inwardly. For Christians, we may suffer outwardly but inwardly we can still have joy and peace. That is the difference. God’s Word promises that the Heavenly Father will look after His children. Non-Christians don’t have such promises to turn to.

How do you distinguish between faith and presumption?

R: There is a difference between testing and temptation. Temptation is when we want to find an easy way and later we will have problems. Testing is different. It is from God and usually it comes in the form of difficult times, hard work, and so on. That is why when we face a problem or crisis, testing and temptation come at the same time. It has to do with our mindset. We keep thinking: can we find an easy way? What is the quickest way to solve something? Very often, the quick way is not the right way. It may look good at first but it will give us problems later. We have to keep learning and improving ourselves because our environment is constantly changing.

N: Presumption is when you build castles in the air and then pray to the Lord to finish them for you. Whatever you do, you have got to look at the economics and check against reality. The other day, I was glad to see the report about a very good analyst who went around checking to see the number of people frequenting restaurants and concerts to understand the economy. One has got to check against reality in economic analysis.

R: I agree with Mr Ngiam. While we have faith, I think we need to do business based on facts. People in the old days might not have had enough facts but today, people have so many facts, statistics, and figures to produce good analysis work. In the early days, people may have relied on gut feelings, which can sometimes be right, or sometimes be wrong. My father did that. But I think today’s environment for doing business is different. We have to look at demand and supply, consumer behavior, purchasing power, and so on. We need to have the faith but we also need the facts, rather than relying solely on emotions.

What advice would you give to somebody who is completely wiped out this time around?

N: It’s a very tough question. We hope the economy will grow very strongly. But we have to tighten our belts and not raise our expectations too high. We have got to live within our means so that when bad times come, it will not be so catastrophic. We will then have the resilience to retreat, withdraw, and live to fight another day.

R: We have to see that we have made a lot of wrong decisions and not blame God or others. But we have to learn and repent of our greed, over-confidence, and stubbornness. This crisis can be a blessing in disguise. It depends on how old you are; if you are in your 20s, you are still so young, it is good that you see the problem in your early age and learn. And for the older businessmen, I would also give a reason to be hopeful; it is a cycle – there are always ups and downs, and there is no eternal up or down. If you talk about the US economic cycle, it is always between nine to twelve years. So don’t give up hope and be open, look for more opportunities. I happened to meet someone who had lost a lot of money. He is from the US and he came to Singapore to look for business, to meet potential clients. He said he knows he is almost bankrupt but he has the talent and technology. So I advised him to go ahead and talk to potential clients. After understanding the facts, he can then find partners and convince banks. People think that they must look at the money first but I think you need to look at the opportunities and potential first.

Mr Ngiam Tong Dow has served as Permanent Secretary in the Singapore Prime Minister’s Office, Ministries of Finance, Trade and Industry, Communications and National Development. He also chaired the Singapore Economic Development Board, Central Provident Fund Board and Housing Development Board; and corporations such as the Development Bank of Singapore and was predecessor of Singapore Technologies Holdings. Currently he is an independent director of Singapore Press Holdings, United Overseas Bank and Yeo Hiap Seng Ltd while running a private consultancy in development economics.

Dr Stephen Riady is President of The Lippo Group of Companies with US$8 billion in assets. Among his many directorships, he is Executive Director of Overseas Union Enterprise Limited and Auric Pacific Group Limited. He graduated from the University of Southern California, and holds a Master’s Degree of Business Administration from Golden Gate University, USA, an Honorary Degree of Doctor of Business Administration from Napier University, UK, and an Honorary University Fellowship from Hong Kong Baptist University.

The 5th CEO Forum on Christian CEOs In A Corrupt Environment with Mr Eddy Chieng and Dr Chatree Duangnet will be held on May 23, 2009, at The Fullerton Hotel, Singapore. For more information, please go to www.leadership.com.sg/ECF_Upcoming.html.

What were the steps involved in your decision to use less energy in your home, and who or what influenced these decisions?

My mum has always shown me the way – not to waste food, turn off appliances when not in use, keep the last run of water from the washing machine for cleaning the toilet, etc. This was way before green issues gained traction. Limited family finance was probably the prime motivation. Things are certainly better now and creature comforts have been gradually added over the years. But somehow we never found the need for air-conditioning. There were days when the weather was really warm and the solution was simply to go and take another shower (without using the heater, of course). Several years ago, I came across an article on standby power taking up a significant proportion of the electrical bill. Then I realized many appliances at home were on standby and were not frequently used. Why allow electricity to leak? I decided to turn them off. My mum has always been at it, I was the one who needed reform.

I had a friend who once remarked, “Live simply, and you will simply live.” I also found out years ago that I had a rare eye condition that could have been triggered by stress. Taken together, it got me asking myself: “Could life be made simpler?” So it was more than just trying to be green, it was part of a bigger question of “removing baggage” and being a work-in-progress steward. Some days I succeeded, some days I failed. But I felt I must at least grapple or struggle with it.

How would you describe your lifestyle?

There are still a lot of areas that I am grappling with. I am only learning to be aware of the impact of my actions. My current lifestyle is simple but not spartan. Thankfully, my workplace is near home and so it makes owning a car far less compelling. And that opens up a lot of possibilities to do more significant things. I still do enjoy little pleasures from time to time – traveling is one. The general rule I try to abide by is: Live a little below my means, and then a little more, if I can afford it.

What keeps you motivated when some days you feel like giving up?

Actually there have been some days I simply gave up! Over time, I found that altruism alone does not last very long for me. What seems more motivating is to resolve ironies and generate two or more benefits from them. Several months ago, I had wanted to increase my frequency of physical exercise but just could not find time for it. Then it dawned upon me that I could take the stairs instead of using the lift. So that’s one less demand on a public facility and one more routine for a healthy heart.

Explain the theology behind your beliefs or in other words, how has the Bible informed your worldview?

The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it (Ps 24:1). Let God not find it in ruins on the day of reckoning. And I suspect it reflects the collective spiritual condition as well. When God put Adam in the Garden the intent was for him to cultivate it and keep it (Gen 2:15). I understand the Hebrew word for “keep,” i.e. “shamar,” has the notion of “keep, watch, preserve.” I take it to mean caring for it in a sustainable way. So by extension, I believe the Greater Eden should similarly be shamar-ed. How do we then shamar the earth? When the Israelites collected the manna, they were instructed to take what they needed. Feedback was immediate for those who tried to push the envelope – in the form of bad food infested with maggots (Ex 16:20). The difference today is that the consequence of our actions is imperceptible and removed from us (both in time and distance). We do not see how our individual actions could collectively bring about unintended consequences. But nature is not keeping silent. I am afraid when it does fight back it might come fast and furious. And then ironically, the land will finally enjoy its Sabbath rest (Lev 26:34, 35).

What are some other things you would like to do but haven’t been able to so far?

Some time ago, I read The Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollan and it inspired a thought: I would like to have a small plot to grow my own greens. This is not aimed at self-sufficiency. But I think it would be fun to appreciate the process of converting the sun’s energy into food. I’d like to know what I eat is not an outcome of a transaction but someone has put in effort to bring it to the table. I had a taste of it when I grew my own rice not long ago. By the way, it was not much of a harvest, not even a spoonful, but for me it was deeply satisfying.

How did your family and friends react toward your conservation efforts?

I am mainly experimenting. So I seldom talk about it with friends. Some have expressed surprise that there is such a community that gives things away such as SgFreeCycle. Others have wanted to do something similar but did not know the resource. But at home, this has been a fun conversation topic with my mum.

Share a story with us from your environmental endeavors over the last few years.

When I first signed up with Bookmooch, an online book exchange platform, I was quite skeptical. Even though there were some safeguards built-in, there were still ways to beat the system. And so I thought, “Why would anybody send a book to a stranger halfway round the globe?” “What if the sender shortchanged me?” Quite unexpectedly, it became an instructive exercise that surfaced some deep-seated stereotypes, even faultlines. It’s just books, one may say, don’t take it too hard. But I think better to have them surfaced in little things, rather than big ones. I do not know to what extent did I save the earth, I think being more self-aware is already a big plus.

What are the biggest challenges you think Singapore and the greater global village face?

In the past when societies were organized around agriculture, there was a certain awareness that what sustained us was dependent on natural cycles and the elements. It was encoded in our culture – in the form of harvest celebrations, rituals to ask for rain, etc. Today, especially in the cities, we are less sensitive to these factors. The ability to get what we want is (perceived) to hinge on only how much money we have. Perhaps this has sent us in the wrong direction.

I think a lot of products are not priced correctly. There seems to be no effective way to account for the externalities like pollution and irreversible damages on the place of origin. But many are beginning to be more aware and there are some promising new technologies on the horizon. We will have to encourage more people to make good choices rather than the proverbial cynic who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing (Oscar Wilde).

Tan Chee Leong is a research engineer and worships at Covenant Evangelical Free Church. He enjoys reading, tending to his small collection of herbs, diving, and traveling to rural locations for hikes or walks. His pet peeves include second-hand smoke and the phrase “at the end of the day.”

The New American Standard Bible has been referenced.